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Post by btillier » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:59 pm

You state—With the recent boom in awareness and acceptance of transgender people — from my reading, I can say awareness yes, but do you see an increase in acceptance?? I’m not sure that I do.

You state—Historically, rates of regret over transition have been very low, — please provide a reference for this. It’s always been my understanding that suicide rates are extremely high in trans individuals in general (e.g., Haas, Rodgers, & Herman, 2014). In studies of suicide attempting and completion in transgender adults is not unusual to see reported rates of 25 to 45%— a sobering statistic. Do you have a statistic on the number of individuals who transition and then detransition? Are these individuals not in regret? Again, I think suicide would be a significant factor in these individuals as well.

You state —Based on this single study, it seems reasonable to speculate that overexcitability might have something to do with the disproportionate appearance of gender dysphoria among the gifted. — I think something is important as gender dysphoria requires more than a single study to extrapolate and speculate from.

You state — overexcitability cranks up emotions — we need to be really careful that we understand what overexcitabilities means and what emotional overexcitability means. Anger is a typical emotion—does overexcitability “crank it up?” Or jealousy? Emotional overexcitability does not simply crank up emotion.

You state —But is there really anything to this? Even if it’s reasonable to hypothesize that overexcitability is playing a role in the rapid increase in girls seeking to transition to being boys, — for such a statement to carry any weight you would have to first demonstrate that this group of girls has overexcitability and also explain why transitioning is becoming more common — presumably this generation of girls didn’t just develop overexcitability — that is, it would’ve been present in the same demographic a generation ago — so, what has changed?

I’m sorry. I read this whole long article and I am quite overwhelmed by the number of assumptions and unfounded conclusions you make. As well, you seem to be saying so much it’s very difficult to determine what you’re saying — please state your argument in one line.

I think it’s a major disservice to use overexcitability as a frame to understand anyone without discussing the rest of TPD. I think you could equally make the case that these people could benefit from a discussion of psychoneuroses as a frame or positive disintegration as a frame (for example, would you consider transitioning a type of positive disintegration?)

This is a very disappointing jumble.

Haas AP, Rodgers PL, Herman JL. (2014).Suicide attempts among transgender and gender non-conforming adults: Findings of the national transgender discrimination survey. Los Angeles, CA: The Williams Institute.

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Re: transgender

Post by Jessie » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:20 pm

Well, Bill, sorry to hear you didn't like the article.

I'm not sure whether you're following this issue closely, but it's broadly accepted to state that transition regret rates have been historically low (as noted at this page at Cornell which includes several studies: https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.e ... er-people/) . And you raise some good questions, which are indeed the questions on which we need more research, such as the statistics on the number of detransitioners. I also don't disagree that suicide in transgender individuals may well indicate regret.

I have a lot of thoughts on what has changed with this generation of overexcitable girls; to address that would fill up a whole second article (though if anyone else wants to opine here, please feel free!) I know those I interviewed had plenty of thoughts on it. We definitely want more people to research this, as I wrote in the article. I, of course, am a writer and not a researcher with the means to conduct these studies, but hope that by putting this framework out there, someone else will be both motivated and supported by their universities to conduct the sort of studies you and I both appear to be calling for.

And yes, I agree very much that a discussion of psychoneurosis and the experience of positive disintegration would be equally relevant to this group. I tried to fit it all into an earlier draft, but that just got too long, so in consultation with those who are not familiar with any of it, I opted to scope this introductory piece to explore just OE. Perhaps we will explore the experience of gender dysphoria and positive disintegration in a future piece; or perhaps, if these girls are experiencing positive disintegration (and yes, I think they are!) then those who followed/subscribed to Third Factor after recognizing themselves in this article will benefit from reading about positive disintegrations in general, whether or not such future articles focus specifically on gender dysphoria. :)

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